A focus for the Grand Designs visit was Bifold Doors for the Patio.

We are keen to get very well engineered doors, probably finished in anthracite grey.

We visited two stands (you can visit 10-20 stands for this) – Kloeber of Ashford near Twickenham  ( http://www.kloeber.co.uk ) , and ID Systems  ( http://www.idsystems.co.uk ) – both well awarded and recognised businesses in this space.  ID are german doors and I would guess clobber are too.

The bifold doors on the plan are situated at the north west corner of the kitchen/breakfast room. (see above)

We have a concern that the bifold if folding inwards will take up too much valuable floor space in the room.  (see above)  We think the architect did it that way around, because if the doors stacked outwards then they either take up patio spca e at the north end, or bind against potentially open french doors at the south end if they stack that way.

What has emerged from these discussions is that the triple doors could stack to the right (looking from outside) at the south end, if the french windows shown at the north of the hobby/family room are replaced by a two door bifold also stacking to the right as you look from the outside (ie to the west).  Furthermore, ID systems have a product offering which would let you move the stock to either side as you wish – for a price obviously.

We have a concern anyway about how open door french windows can blow in the wind – our existing aluminium doors have no stays to hold them open.   On the north east corner, at the gin and tonic patio, we have another potential clash of doors issue – between the dining room external doors and the french windows at the north end of the lounge.

Now – it seems sensible to us to consider a two door bifold at the north east corner of the dining room.  We have decided to stick with french window type designs at north and south of the lounge to get through-fanlight ventilation.

We have heard back quotes from Kloeber with quotes for doors as

• triple bifold at kitchen/breakfast room £4560 inc VAT
• both double bifold in family room and dining room approx £3360 each incl VAT, totalling £11,280 for three doors.  We must check with LQS what we put in the cost estimates here.  It’ll have been less obviously.

The other vendor, ID systems, should also quote for bifold which can stack each side, plus roof lanterns.

Click here for the Kloeber quote

Click here for the Kloeber brochure

This is the link for the Kloeber West London Showroom

Response and quotes for ID Systems will be added when they arrive

We had an objective at Grand Designs to get more decisions (style) and some cost quotes for Aluminium front and back doors.

For a long time we thought Cerberus at Leigh Green could be a supplier as we had seen them before. http://www.cerberusdoors.co.uk  However, they turned out to have product built in Marine-ply, which is just not what I had in mind.

We visited Pirnar (Slovenia manufacturer) who are very very top end. A totally bespoke product. It was Pirnar who said that an 838mm wheelchair width door would need a gap in the brickwork of 1000mm to fit it. A quote is requested from them.

We spent most of our time though with RK Door systems of Crawley (showroom there). They have a polish built product very much aligned to what we are thinking

click here to see their front door quote in detail with design

click here to see their back door quote and design

This is the RK Doors website  www.rkdoorsystems.co.uk

This is what they quoted in their email:-

Further to our discussions earlier today I have pleasure in submitting my preliminary quotations for your two new entrance doors as below

Supply only of RK1100 Entre 65mm Profile doorset as per your enquiry and attached

schedule no. RKDS141858  (U Value 0.90W/sq.mK)……………………………………………………………………….£3,619.39 + VAT Free delivery included

Supply only of RK1200 Entre 65mm Profile doorset as per your enquiry and attached

schedule no. RKDS141859  (U Value 0.90W/sq.mK)……………………………………………………………………….£2,234.69 + VAT Free delivery included

If you wish for us to install these doors for you the cost would be £245.00 + VAT for the survey and £895.00 + VAT for the installation as long as both doors were surveyed and then fitted at the same time

Please let me know if you need any further information and I look forward to hearing from you.

Please note the following :-

1. Supply to site only in a single delivery.

2. All prices are plus VAT at appropriate rate at date of invoice.

3. All doors factory finished powder coated Aluminium in a specified RK RAL colour or other finish, as indicated on the attached schedules.

4. All doors have low level access threshold and designed to sit at FFL.

5. All sizes quoted are actual overall frame sizes and suitable building in tolerances should be allowed for installation.

6. Payment terms – 50% deposit with order, balance of goods by cleared funds 7 days prior to delivery, or held in storage on completion of manufacture. Payment shall not be delayed if the building is unable to accept any doors at time of agreed delivery and we reserve the right to charge for storage if delivery is delayed 7 days beyond the agreed delivery date.

7. Current lead time 6-8 weeks from date of confirmed order.
8. Doors are non-structural items and adequate support over is assumed to be provided by others.

9. Delivery point is deemed to be the nearest vehicular access location for the delivery wagon.

10. This quotation is valid for 30 days and subject to our standard terms and conditions.

11. All doors supplied with 10 Year Manufacturer’s Warranty.

Please let me know if you need any further information and I look forward to hearing from you

from RK Doors

Harmann Doors

We are very interested to locate a Harmann doors supplier.  Our local distributor is AHA Garage Doors of Copthorne who we met at the Kent Build It show.  We’ve been unable to raise them – but it turns out they were at Grand Designs.  We shall endeavour to go down to see their showroom.  The attraction could be that the product is not infinite choice like Pirnar and so probably cheaper.  It wouldn’t surprise me though if it’s basically the same as RK doors.

We shall see.

These three photos above are the existing windows supplied by Marsland Windows of Edenbridge around 20 years ago. Marsland ceased trading around 2009.

Our QS team at Liberty worked to determine if we might find a match for the extrusions under another brand name. The name they came up with was SAPA from a supplier in Sussex, who quoted as part of the original work on the cost schedule.

We wanted to get a view of the windows for ourselves and found a SAPA supplier at Cheam Windows in Banstead – about 20-25 minutes away.  Tel 01737 352901

We spoke there to the Sales Director, George Longworth (07733 325 083)

( george.longworth@cheamwindows.co.uk )

We had a very non pressured, non sales style conversation with George.  This what we learned.

• he supplies both SAPA and AluK manufactured systems (amongst others)
• he feels that AlluK has probably passed SAPA (the older brand) in terms of features, security and thermal performance, and the aesthetic look of the frame is pretty similar.
• He also said that if he got the business for the new windows,  he would also quote for  the work to ease the upper windows out during the cladding process… that way a window specialist would be doing the work, rather than a ladder or general services guy.  It struck me that Nick may be interested in that.

It seems that nowadays, there is a choice of depth to the double glazing units and the type of glass is known as SOLA.  We need to check ours, but I would guess the existing are 15-18mm type depth. We discussed at great length the other features we have on the existing windows, which of course we would like to at least match with the new windows.

Easy clean hinges – he had these in the showroom for side hinge windows, but was less clear if he had them for large top hung windows such as our bathrooms – they enable you to swivel the windows for cleaning from inside the property.  We feel they are a must-have.

Night latch or ventilation latch enables you to lock the windows slightly ajar. Very useful.

I’d say the locks now are much more secure than the existing ones we have, as they are locking the entire window at multiple points.

These also have security hinges known as clamp hinges which are much better than our existing hinges.

He had samples of various obscured glass by Pilkington garden 1-5 for obscurity.  None of them were obscure enough for our taste in the two bathrooms and downstairs cloakroom.  We thought “satin” finish (above), rated grade 4 for opacity, would probably be what we would need there. Maybe on the other windows we would choose a 5 grade pilkington choice for those.

More thinking to do here. Most probably we need an on-site survey done.

Click here for Stairplan Brochure

We went to the Grand Designs Exhibition with Bannisters and staircases on our minds.  We came across two promising examples – oak and glass, and secondly (less preferred) steel and glass.

This (above) was the most preferred style of the day.

This one above was probably too elaborate with jig saw cuts in the glass.

This above was the steel and glass example from http://www.shsproducts.co.uk

The oak and glass company seems to trade as both “stair plan” and “trade stairs”

Here below is the brochure

And here below is the Tradestairs leaflet

We have asked for all doors on the lower floor to be wheel chair width, and the architect has dutifully drawn them so.

At the Grand Designs Exhibition, one of the aluminium door providers said that for an 838mm wheelchair width door, they would expect the doorway opening in the wall to be 1000mm wide. This is wider than the door has been drawn why the architect.

We need to get a second opinion.  I take it that aluminium frames might be bigger, but that seems a LOT bigger.

In the spec, the garage door quoted was a Hormann Door from Adlor Doors in Aylesford.  Hormann doors are also marketed under the Garadoor brand but the products are identical. This design is called a “SECTIONAL DOOR” not a roller door. This was the vendor used (very satisfactory) for the door at 2AR.

The door at 2AR is seven feet high, but somewhat wider than the door at 6AR which is 192 inches, 16 feet wide exactly.  I would guess that we shall aim for a seven foot high aperture as well, but yet to be agreed.

The design of the door at 2AR which we like is called

“LINEAR MEDIUM” (which refers to the panel size, and this is the middle one of three)

SILK FINISH (the other two being wood effect and sand)

This door is finished in white, where we would choose ANTHRACITE GREY

The photos below show the door at 2AR.

Noting that “Linear Medium” is lower cost than “Linear Large”, and that having a non white colour is  £455 plus VAT extra.  Adlor doors seem to go for bidding a 20% discount, and quoting for a 15 feet wide door (ours is 16 feet) they were quoting £2251 I think.

The electric motor is an EXTRA £495 including VAT and Fitting.

The cartridge forming the door enclosure sits on the back of the pillars and is around 4-5 inches deep. This photo above from the showroom shows a timber filler as well, but that is not needed (showroom issue). Photo below shows the fitting at 2AR.

This has raised an issue of the way the architect drew the garage extension – see below.

In the drawings, you will see the old pillars have been retained and extra new pillars built a metre out.

Now because of the way the garage door sections roll back, I think there is not enough clearance for the mechanism to be fitted between the two old pillars…. So either the top few bricks of the old pillars will have to be taken out, or the whole old pillars removed and bricked past in one brick thickness. The gap between the two old pillars will not be wide enough to accept the door and its cartridge.

The vendor says that they visited the property when the property was unattended to raise the original quote.  We shall have to get them out again to do a survey.

The door makers website  can be found at http://www.garador.co.uk or by clicking here

For the record, the photos below show the old door at 6AR.

Black boxes in photos!